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Subtitles for Yuriy Norshteyn Interview on "Night Flight" (March 13, 2007) (2007)

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August 16 2007 07:38:45
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Yuriy Norshteyn, Nochnoy polyot (2007-03-13).2007.en.1.25fps.1187249925.srt ⭳
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1 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,000 Night Flight 2 00:00:19,001 --> 00:00:22,401 Good evening on channel 194 Culture, "Night Flight", with Andrey Maksimov. 3 00:00:22,402 --> 00:00:25,602 The 12th Open Russian Festival of Animated Film has just concluded in Suzdal. 4 00:00:25,603 --> 00:00:30,303 This gives us the opportunity to talk about animation - an important topic, I think. 5 00:00:30,304 --> 00:00:32,304 Yuriy Borisovich Norshteyn is our guest tonight. Good evening. 6 00:00:32,305 --> 00:00:32,805 Good evening. 7 00:00:32,806 --> 00:00:37,806 I want to begin with the genesis of animation, to ask a scientific question, so to speak. 8 00:00:37,807 --> 00:00:42,507 Once upon a time, humanity created animation - created something which did not exist. 9 00:00:42,508 --> 00:00:46,008 After all, when we shoot live-action film, we shoot that which basically exists. 10 00:00:46,009 --> 00:00:48,509 But animation is a kind of thought-up world, 11 00:00:48,510 --> 00:00:51,509 and people thought up that they should show this thought-up world. 12 00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:57,010 In your perspective, what does it say about humanity, this fact that it invented animation? 13 00:00:57,511 --> 00:01:04,900 Well, first of all, I think it is because of a primal interest in how movement is created. 14 00:01:04,901 --> 00:01:07,901 After all, animation was there before film was invented. 15 00:01:07,902 --> 00:01:10,602 For example, that famous device, the praxinoscope, 16 00:01:10,603 --> 00:01:13,003 where all of the phases of movement were cut out... 17 00:01:13,004 --> 00:01:14,504 Animation is older than cinema? 18 00:01:14,505 --> 00:01:20,505 Of course, and probably by 25 or more years, in this sense... I don't know the exact date. 19 00:01:20,507 --> 00:01:25,407 But the very idea that movement can be separated 20 00:01:25,408 --> 00:01:29,808 into a series of moments - I think it was a brilliant invention. 21 00:01:29,809 --> 00:01:33,909 It is just natural to think of Pushkin (...) 22 00:01:38,110 --> 00:01:41,110 But here this effect of separated movement appeared. 23 00:01:41,111 --> 00:01:47,011 In truth, this idea (separated and summated movement) is not new, 24 00:01:47,012 --> 00:01:48,712 and didn't first appear in the 19th century. 25 00:01:48,713 --> 00:01:54,613 Already in Egypt it was all there, and if we look at the reliefs and paintings... 26 00:01:54,614 --> 00:01:58,314 So animation appeared as a reflection of mankind's desire to... 27 00:01:58,315 --> 00:02:01,000 ...discover how movement works. 28 00:02:01,001 --> 00:02:06,001 Russian animation has gone through all kinds of catastrophies - difficult times, and... 29 00:02:06,002 --> 00:02:11,602 Now, apparently, I hear that 110 animated films are in production, of which 10 are features. 30 00:02:11,603 --> 00:02:15,503 Does this mean that our animation is rising again? 31 00:02:15,504 --> 00:02:17,404 ...you know, I would not say so. 32 00:02:17,405 --> 00:02:22,705 i.e., in terms of production, in terms of mass of films, yes, of course. 33 00:02:22,706 --> 00:02:24,506 There is now money for all this. 34 00:02:24,507 --> 00:02:29,507 But the truth is that money is not easily given, and is not given to all that one would wish it were given to. 35 00:02:29,508 --> 00:02:32,808 Well, for example, here: There is a famous studio led by Tatarskiy, 36 00:02:32,809 --> 00:02:35,709 one of the major studios today: Pilot Studio. 37 00:02:35,710 --> 00:02:39,210 And they're making, it seems to me, the best project of today. 38 00:02:39,211 --> 00:02:41,011 About the folk tales of the indigenous peoples of Russia. 39 00:02:41,012 --> 00:02:44,300 An amazing project; the idea is good, and everything else. 40 00:02:44,301 --> 00:02:46,001 But how difficult it is to get money! 41 00:02:46,002 --> 00:02:50,702 And Sasha told me that he went to the government, they spoke with some senior officials, 42 00:02:50,703 --> 00:02:52,000 visited (Kavzona) and everything ... 43 00:02:52,001 --> 00:02:57,701 and they all promised, all watched, all rejoiced, and all said that it was a wonderful project. 44 00:02:57,702 --> 00:03:02,302 But everything remains in the same place. And they struggle from one film to the next. 45 00:03:02,303 --> 00:03:04,203 So which projects get money? 46 00:03:04,204 --> 00:03:09,504 Well, there you are, apparently there are moguls who want to see some kind of feature film. 47 00:03:09,505 --> 00:03:14,699 And I think, usually, not the best kind - as a rule, they're all effects, effects, effects. 48 00:03:14,700 --> 00:03:23,006 The very essence of animation that had been laid down in the 1950s is missing from today's feature film. 49 00:03:23,007 --> 00:03:27,307 So, we cannot see too many films today of true quality. 50 00:03:27,308 --> 00:03:29,508 What is the essence of animation which is gone? 51 00:03:29,609 --> 00:03:33,909 Here: "The Snow Queen", for example, "The Golden Antelope", 52 00:03:33,910 --> 00:03:37,600 "The Enchanted Boy" - these are all feature-length masterpieces. 53 00:03:37,601 --> 00:03:41,000 Is it possible to formulate in words that which has gone? 54 00:03:41,601 --> 00:03:46,001 Empathy is gone, sincerity is gone... hardship is gone. 55 00:03:46,002 --> 00:03:50,000 For me this is very important. Psychology is gone. 56 00:03:50,001 --> 00:03:56,001 The school of gesture is gone; classic gesture. 57 00:03:56,002 --> 00:03:58,502 In their place is discreteness, 58 00:03:58,503 --> 00:04:02,503 which is very quickly and easily understood, and just as quickly and easily forgotten. 59 00:04:02,504 --> 00:04:07,904 You've watched 60 ... even more, 80 films. 60 00:04:07,905 --> 00:04:11,705 Among them, the first ... well, let's begin with Petrov's film. 61 00:04:11,706 --> 00:04:15,506 Unfortunately the name "Petrov", I think, the rest of the world probably knows better than we do? 62 00:04:15,507 --> 00:04:16,507 The winner of... 63 00:04:16,508 --> 00:04:18,508 No, he's also known over here, of course. 64 00:04:18,509 --> 00:04:20,709 ...winner of the Cannes festival... 65 00:04:20,710 --> 00:04:25,310 ...No, not Cannes, he received an Oscar for the film The Old Man and the Sea. 66 00:04:25,311 --> 00:04:27,611 Which incidentally was made in Canada, not here. 67 00:04:27,612 --> 00:04:30,012 That's why I say, maybe they know him there. 68 00:04:30,013 --> 00:04:34,000 Uh... Two words about the film, then let's talk about others... 69 00:04:34,001 --> 00:04:35,001 You see... 70 00:04:35,002 --> 00:04:36,502 There's an unusual technique, as far as I know. 71 00:04:36,503 --> 00:04:39,003 The technique is something. He has an unusual technique - 72 00:04:39,004 --> 00:04:47,304 I can't say that he invented it, animating with paint on glass, I think it was invented by Caroline Leaf. 73 00:04:47,305 --> 00:04:54,405 She made the first film, in 1978. It was called "The Street", and it was a wonderful film in its time. 74 00:04:54,406 --> 00:04:58,606 Some story by a Jewish writer, I don't remember now, I don't know... 75 00:04:58,607 --> 00:05:01,307 this was an event then. 76 00:05:01,308 --> 00:05:04,908 Sasha was certainly aware of this film. 77 00:05:04,909 --> 00:05:11,309 He wonderfully... I think that in animated filmmaking today few draw like him, and maybe nobody does. 78 00:05:11,310 --> 00:05:13,510 He's a complete virtuoso in this respect. 79 00:05:13,511 --> 00:05:16,611 And his first film "The Cow" was an immediate phenomenon. 80 00:05:16,612 --> 00:05:20,812 It was a diploma work and a full-fledged film at the same time, and incidentally was nominated for an Oscar. 81 00:05:20,813 --> 00:05:22,313 What's surprising is that it DIDN'T win. 82 00:05:22,314 --> 00:05:27,114 Now that was one film which should have won, because it was in all respects a NEW film. 83 00:05:27,115 --> 00:05:31,800 Of a new psychology. Well, it's sufficient to say that it was an adaptation of Platov, you see? 84 00:05:31,801 --> 00:05:36,301 This already speaks of the quality of the animation. 85 00:05:36,302 --> 00:05:43,202 The film which he has just made - it received the Grand Prix, and I think won another two categories... 86 00:05:43,203 --> 00:05:49,303 but... I should really speak with Sasha about it, because the virtuosity is the same. 87 00:05:49,304 --> 00:05:51,054 The same glamour. 88 00:05:51,055 --> 00:05:56,655 But I think there are things in cinema more important than certain moments, 89 00:05:56,656 --> 00:06:00,656 than a simple showcase of mastery... 90 00:06:00,657 --> 00:06:03,500 So basically... you wished for depth? 91 00:06:03,501 --> 00:06:06,801 I wished for depth. I wished for... economy. 92 00:06:06,802 --> 00:06:09,802 I wished for, on some occasions, humility, 93 00:06:09,803 --> 00:06:16,503 when virtuosity gives way to something more deep, psychologically more important. 94 00:06:16,504 --> 00:06:20,904 I have read that you (or everyone) liked a film which did not receive anything, 95 00:06:20,905 --> 00:06:23,605 which tells about love in a kindergarten. 96 00:06:23,606 --> 00:06:26,006 Yes. I must say that for me this film was a phenomenon. 97 00:06:26,007 --> 00:06:27,307 How so? 98 00:06:27,308 --> 00:06:31,808 This film, it is called Foolish Girl. The title itself is great. 99 00:06:31,809 --> 00:06:35,709 It was made by Zoya Kireyeva. She is a cinematographer at Sverdlovsk studio. 100 00:06:35,710 --> 00:06:41,110 Everyone at Sverdlovsk knows her. For instance, Valentin Olshvang, there is such a director 101 00:06:41,111 --> 00:06:44,611 (also writer and artist, of course) - he worked with this Zoya. 102 00:06:44,612 --> 00:06:48,700 Many worked with her. She has a very good eye, and good taste. 103 00:06:48,701 --> 00:06:52,201 And I think, she sees the world very clearly. 104 00:06:52,202 --> 00:06:57,602 And I think that this film was possibly inspired by her own childhood. 105 00:06:57,603 --> 00:07:00,903 The film is about childhood love. I have not seen anything similar in animation. 106 00:07:00,904 --> 00:07:02,504 And in even in cinema it is very difficult to find... 107 00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:03,505 Why, what's so special about her film? 108 00:07:03,506 --> 00:07:08,506 You see, there's a girl there who's trying to attract the attention of a boy. 109 00:07:08,507 --> 00:07:10,707 But she's still - she's a girl, she doesn't know how. 110 00:07:10,708 --> 00:07:15,508 So she makes faces in front of him, she turns over a bowl of soup in front of him, 111 00:07:15,509 --> 00:07:19,709 she simply behaves disreputably - to attract attention to herself. 112 00:07:19,710 --> 00:07:25,610 But it attracts the attention of the educator, who begins to scold her, and tell her that she's behaving badly... 113 00:07:25,611 --> 00:07:30,911 she shows the boy a MOUSE, standing there covered in makeup (she must've seen it in magazines). 114 00:07:30,912 --> 00:07:33,712 This is all done superbly... 115 00:07:33,713 --> 00:07:35,813 So why didn't the film receive anything? 116 00:07:35,814 --> 00:07:40,814 This is a riddle for me. You know what... it's the syndrome of the jury. 117 00:07:40,815 --> 00:07:44,715 For the second year now, we have this strange system: 118 00:07:44,716 --> 00:07:48,616 33 people are chosen (I was in the jury as well). 119 00:07:50,097 --> 00:07:57,417 And everyone is given cards, with instructions about which categories should be done... 120 00:07:57,418 --> 00:08:00,218 and five top films, and everyone must write... 121 00:08:00,219 --> 00:08:07,519 this jury isn't like a normal jury. A normal jury consists of 5, 7 people; always an odd number. 122 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:16,520 And this one is different. They're trying to have a certain objectivity, but not succeeding! 123 00:08:16,521 --> 00:08:21,021 For example because some members of the jury were in the competition, so... 124 00:08:21,022 --> 00:08:22,022 What do you mean? 125 00:08:22,023 --> 00:08:25,223 Well, you see, there are certain incongruities here. 126 00:08:25,224 --> 00:08:28,224 But what Petrov received was gotten fairly, I hope? 127 00:08:28,225 --> 00:08:30,425 Well, you see, the jury has voted. 128 00:08:30,426 --> 00:08:33,000 I myself voted for another film. 129 00:08:33,001 --> 00:08:40,301 I voted... I don't remember now, but it was either Foolish Girl or Konstantin Bronzit's film 130 00:08:40,302 --> 00:08:42,902 "Lavatory Love"... I don't remember its name now... 131 00:08:42,903 --> 00:08:48,003 and there was also a very good film called "Zhiharka", made by Oleg Uzhinov. 132 00:08:48,004 --> 00:08:49,504 Those, basically, are my three. 133 00:08:49,505 --> 00:08:52,505 Let's hear a question, and... We're listening, good evening. 134 00:08:52,806 --> 00:08:53,306 Hello? 135 00:08:53,307 --> 00:08:53,907 Yes. 136 00:08:53,908 --> 00:08:54,608 - Good evening. - Greetings. 137 00:08:54,610 --> 00:08:58,810 I would like to know your opinion about the animated film "The Nutcracker" 138 00:08:58,811 --> 00:09:03,111 and about the work of the voice actors who worked on it. 139 00:09:03,112 --> 00:09:04,212 This is an old film... 140 00:09:04,213 --> 00:09:06,813 No, it's a new one, it just came out. 141 00:09:06,814 --> 00:09:08,114 - Just now? - ...well, a year ago. Yes, a new film. 142 00:09:08,115 --> 00:09:09,415 Oh, Tatyana Ilyina's film? 143 00:09:09,416 --> 00:09:10,316 Yes. 144 00:09:10,317 --> 00:09:14,517 You know what, I can't say that I have a positive opinion about this film. 145 00:09:14,518 --> 00:09:17,000 It's full of junk, of unneeded scenes. 146 00:09:17,001 --> 00:09:21,301 It has... rather careless animation, 147 00:09:21,302 --> 00:09:27,702 there is no sensible progression of events (strict, sensible progression), 148 00:09:27,703 --> 00:09:35,403 it has... all the outward motions of imagery, and its combination with music... 149 00:09:35,404 --> 00:09:38,854 but in reality, this harmonity was not attained. 150 00:09:38,855 --> 00:09:45,205 To this film, I can compare the Nutcracker made by Boris Stepantsev 151 00:09:45,206 --> 00:09:48,406 (this was many, many years ago, it was a 37-minute film), 152 00:09:48,407 --> 00:09:52,707 which was in this sense cleaner. This film is messier. 153 00:09:52,708 --> 00:09:57,308 What would you say, what can a good animated film give a child 154 00:09:57,309 --> 00:10:01,009 which cannot be given by a good live-action film? 155 00:10:01,010 --> 00:10:06,600 First of all... an animated film differs from a live-action film in that... 156 00:10:06,601 --> 00:10:10,501 the animated film takes away. The image - it's clean, this image. 157 00:10:10,502 --> 00:10:14,802 A created image is always closer to a child 158 00:10:14,803 --> 00:10:18,803 (in other words, built-up selectively from the real world). 159 00:10:18,804 --> 00:10:24,304 So he will look at that which is drawn and not that which is really reality showing reality. 160 00:10:24,305 --> 00:10:28,505 In this sense, an animated film already wins. 161 00:10:28,506 --> 00:10:33,806 Besides that, an animated film teaches... it attunes vision. 162 00:10:33,807 --> 00:10:40,407 It attunes vision and hearing. It makes the eye and mind more observant... 163 00:10:40,408 --> 00:10:41,808 Any animated film, or are we talking about the good ones? 164 00:10:41,809 --> 00:10:46,809 Well, I mean in principle, an animated film attunes one's vision and hearing. 165 00:10:46,810 --> 00:10:50,610 Obviously, we'll talk about a good film. You see... 166 00:10:50,611 --> 00:10:55,511 Khitruk's film, "Bonifas' Holidays", attunes and harmonizes the whole organism. 167 00:10:55,512 --> 00:10:59,212 It's entirely harmonious, and also his film "Winnie-the-Pooh". 168 00:10:59,213 --> 00:11:02,013 Is it possible to somehow (you're saying all these very pretty words)... 169 00:11:02,014 --> 00:11:06,500 is it possible to explain: animation attunes vision and hearing. How can one...? 170 00:11:06,501 --> 00:11:09,501 Of course. Winnie-the-Pooh is walking along, singing a song. 171 00:11:09,502 --> 00:11:13,202 "Where we're going with Piglet"... and then... and suddenly he stops and says "yes"... 172 00:11:14,603 --> 00:11:17,403 They run back... and then begin to sing again. 173 00:11:17,404 --> 00:11:20,904 The child is drawn into this game. He already knows it. 174 00:11:20,905 --> 00:11:25,705 And when he watches the film many times in a row, he is constantly in this game. 175 00:11:25,706 --> 00:11:29,506 It's the same thing as when you read a three-year-old a book. 176 00:11:29,507 --> 00:11:31,707 He already knows it by heart, but he will force you to read it, 177 00:11:31,708 --> 00:11:36,308 and he'll even correct you if you make a mistake, because he wants to travel down that road again. 178 00:11:36,309 --> 00:11:39,709 That is the very path of true poetry, and [...] of literature. 179 00:11:39,710 --> 00:11:47,010 I'm listening, good evening. Hello. Speak, please. 180 00:11:47,011 --> 00:11:47,911 Hello. Good evening. 181 00:11:47,912 --> 00:11:48,612 Good evening. 182 00:11:48,613 --> 00:11:53,313 I'd like to know your opinion: why are these wonderful animated films of which you now speak 183 00:11:53,314 --> 00:11:58,014 (which win the Grand Prix, and other awards) impossible for us to find anywhere? 184 00:11:58,015 --> 00:12:01,615 You know, this question is not mine to answer, this is a question for the firms which release the films. 185 00:12:01,616 --> 00:12:04,216 I don't know what kind of politics govern these firms. 186 00:12:04,217 --> 00:12:05,517 Is it possible to explain it, in general? 187 00:12:05,518 --> 00:12:11,318 It seems to me that theoretically, everything which is useful for children should be very profitable to sell, 188 00:12:11,319 --> 00:12:13,919 because everyone has children and our populace readily spends money on them. 189 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,920 Why aren't animated films sold? 190 00:12:15,921 --> 00:12:20,021 In general, it is a riddle for me: what is necessary to sell films. 191 00:12:20,022 --> 00:12:23,222 What idea. It's a riddle for me, you see? 192 00:12:23,223 --> 00:12:28,623 As a rule, low-budget stuff is put on sale. Or what is of poor quality. 193 00:12:28,624 --> 00:12:32,024 Today, it seems that this is slowly beginning to... normalize. 194 00:12:32,025 --> 00:12:33,625 But I don't know who makes the TV schedule, 195 00:12:33,626 --> 00:12:39,926 because Khitruk's film is often put into the middle of such TRASH... that he is lost in all of it. 196 00:12:39,927 --> 00:12:45,327 So, who must have control... they'll be arguing again "censorship", "not censorship". 197 00:12:45,328 --> 00:12:48,000 But there must be a certain artistic cleanliness in all this. 198 00:12:48,001 --> 00:12:52,001 But there are very few people who understand this expression: 199 00:12:52,002 --> 00:12:54,802 "a certain artistic cleanliness". This is, after all... 200 00:12:54,803 --> 00:12:56,803 You know, actually, 201 00:12:56,804 --> 00:13:02,204 on that very Soyuzmultfilm studio there was always an artistic council which determined this quality. 202 00:13:02,205 --> 00:13:06,505 And I don't remember anyone complaining about... 203 00:13:06,506 --> 00:13:10,206 about the critique which would be given by this artistic council regarding any given film, 204 00:13:10,207 --> 00:13:12,807 because most of the time it was completely justified. 205 00:13:12,808 --> 00:13:17,608 In this sense, Soyuzmultfilm is still functioning. There's still something living there. 206 00:13:17,609 --> 00:13:21,409 And they could create a good programme from the films which they create there. 207 00:13:21,410 --> 00:13:27,110 But... either Soyuzmultfilm, or, I don't know, the Petersburg studio. 208 00:13:27,111 --> 00:13:34,411 Or the director himself, collaborating with his colleagues... 209 00:13:34,412 --> 00:13:37,112 they could create these programmes, and propose them. 210 00:13:37,113 --> 00:13:43,213 Tell me, are there such people in the world who could watch, for example, "The Overcoat" 211 00:13:43,214 --> 00:13:45,600 (well, when it is ready)... 212 00:13:45,601 --> 00:13:50,401 and say, "Yuriy Borisovich, this here isn't very good", and would not be sent packing by you? 213 00:13:50,402 --> 00:13:54,402 You know... yes, there can be such people, and probably will be. 214 00:13:54,403 --> 00:13:57,000 Some won't like the tempo, some won't like... 215 00:13:57,001 --> 00:13:59,901 Yes, yes, but how would you react to this? 216 00:13:59,902 --> 00:14:02,000 I would react to this very calmly. 217 00:14:02,001 --> 00:14:07,701 The test for me is very clear: if I myself am uncertain about a certain part of the film, 218 00:14:07,702 --> 00:14:14,000 and someone else talks about this, or several other people, it means that there's a certain inner harmony which is... 219 00:14:14,001 --> 00:14:15,901 So, overall, your own rating is first for you? 220 00:14:15,902 --> 00:14:17,802 First, without question. 221 00:14:17,803 --> 00:14:19,503 So what about the artistic council? 222 00:14:19,504 --> 00:14:25,004 It... you see, the artistic council... it happens during the production on the film. 223 00:14:25,005 --> 00:14:35,705 It usually... I need the artistic council just so that we can talk, so that I can feel... or rather, get a feeling for, 224 00:14:35,706 --> 00:14:44,706 either my own rightness or look at what the artistic council can tell me, or just my colleagues. 225 00:14:44,707 --> 00:14:48,107 Maybe one doesn't need an artistic council for this, maybe it's enough to simply... 226 00:14:48,108 --> 00:14:51,808 get together, show the film, sit and talk about it. 227 00:14:51,809 --> 00:14:54,000 But in this case, the artistic council is... 228 00:14:54,001 --> 00:14:58,201 I should also say, that I'm talking about an artistic council during the production of a film. 229 00:14:58,202 --> 00:15:04,202 When a film is finished... then, naturally, everyone has their own opinion - this is all clear. 230 00:15:04,203 --> 00:15:07,603 But there is a moment after which it is impossible to remake a film. It isn't a stage show. 231 00:15:07,604 --> 00:15:09,000 We're listening. Good evening. 232 00:15:09,001 --> 00:15:14,321 Good evening. First of all, I would like to thank you for all of your artistic work. 233 00:15:14,322 --> 00:15:20,002 It has invaluable merit for those who've grown up already. 234 00:15:20,003 --> 00:15:24,403 I myself am 30 years, and I grew up on your films. There. 235 00:15:24,404 --> 00:15:29,504 But I now have a son who's also growing up on your Hedgehog in the Fog and your other films. 236 00:15:29,505 --> 00:15:33,405 Please tell me, in your future plans, what are you planning to film? 237 00:15:33,406 --> 00:15:34,406 Because I know that you have "The Overcoat"... 238 00:15:34,407 --> 00:15:40,007 I see. Thank you... I wanted... well, since he asked, you see I wanted to ask about this a little later... 239 00:15:40,008 --> 00:15:44,008 I understand that there is finally a concrete sense of optimism about "The Overcoat". 240 00:15:44,009 --> 00:15:49,309 Yes. At the end of last year, Sberbank gave us money for the film. 241 00:15:49,310 --> 00:15:51,610 It gave us enough money for the whole film at once. 242 00:15:51,611 --> 00:15:56,711 Now, how it will be spent... that's our job... in this sense, we are free. 243 00:15:56,712 --> 00:16:03,700 But I think that by the end of this year we will complete 30 minutes of the film... 244 00:16:03,701 --> 00:16:09,201 meaning, we will record the sound, the music, and finish some scenes which must be finished, 245 00:16:09,202 --> 00:16:13,102 and I would like to release these 30 minutes onto the screen. 246 00:16:13,103 --> 00:16:13,803 So this would be...? 247 00:16:13,804 --> 00:16:17,904 So that I could have a chance to continue after that, while earning some money. 248 00:16:17,905 --> 00:16:19,805 And how many minutes will there be in total? 249 00:16:19,806 --> 00:16:22,206 In total, the film was planned to be 65 minutes. 250 00:16:22,207 --> 00:16:24,507 So this is almost half... 251 00:16:24,508 --> 00:16:28,508 This is almost half... or actually a little less... 252 00:16:28,509 --> 00:16:33,509 But if you make 32.5 minutes, this would be exactly half. Or is it definitely 30? 253 00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:39,110 You see, mathematics doesn't have any meaning here; it could be 32.5, I don't know. 254 00:16:39,111 --> 00:16:45,211 When exactly did you start thinking about this person who's the protagonist of "The Overcoat"? 255 00:16:45,212 --> 00:16:50,000 You see, this was so long ago... that it will scare many. 256 00:16:50,001 --> 00:16:54,801 It was in 1981 that the director's scenario was written. 257 00:16:54,802 --> 00:17:00,402 So 25 years have passed. How do you think, since that time, has our relationship to the little person, 258 00:17:00,403 --> 00:17:05,503 the relationship in Russia (many events have passed) changed or not? 259 00:17:05,504 --> 00:17:11,904 You see, I don't know how it is in Russia... if the relationship has changed (though it must have). 260 00:17:11,905 --> 00:17:19,405 But that the understanding of this character has gone through important changes, in general, is clear, 261 00:17:19,406 --> 00:17:21,006 but it was clear to me even back then. 262 00:17:21,007 --> 00:17:23,307 Why? 263 00:17:23,308 --> 00:17:24,708 So, how do we principally relate to him? 264 00:17:24,709 --> 00:17:31,000 After all, for a long time we related to him with sympathy, which is quite natural and normal. 265 00:17:31,001 --> 00:17:34,701 But we had not yet discovered those depths and secrets, and that blackness, 266 00:17:34,702 --> 00:17:48,102 which suddenly reveal themselves before us when we see the most minute psychological diversities. 267 00:17:48,103 --> 00:17:54,103 In other words, we... begin to see in this little person not only a beaten creature, 268 00:17:54,104 --> 00:18:01,604 but also a creature which can... whose actions aren't at all excused by the mere fact that he is little. 269 00:18:01,605 --> 00:18:06,000 We have become used to relating to him by petting him on the head and thinking 270 00:18:06,001 --> 00:18:10,901 that with our empathy we, first of all, raise ourselves to a higher level, and also raise him up. 271 00:18:10,902 --> 00:18:13,702 In reality, it is completely the opposite. 272 00:18:13,703 --> 00:18:16,503 Is a little person capable of empathy? This is the first question. 273 00:18:16,504 --> 00:18:19,000 Is Akakiy Akakievich, for example, capable of petting a dog? 274 00:18:19,801 --> 00:18:20,501 No 275 00:18:21,402 --> 00:18:26,000 So Akakiy... you would not want Akakiy Akakievich to be in your circle of friends. 276 00:18:26,001 --> 00:18:29,001 That's not the point. Of course I wouldn't want that. But that's not the point. 277 00:18:29,002 --> 00:18:30,002 You WOULDN'T want it? 278 00:18:30,003 --> 00:18:35,703 No, I wouldn't. Because this is a global character. A cosmic character. 279 00:18:35,704 --> 00:18:41,454 And he is not limited by this empathy of which we speak. His function is much more... 280 00:18:41,455 --> 00:18:43,805 I mean, he is like a unique effigy, 281 00:18:43,806 --> 00:18:47,306 he is completely unrepeatable and there has been nothing similar in literature. 282 00:18:47,307 --> 00:18:51,807 But he drags behind him a very big... a whole chain of events. 283 00:18:51,808 --> 00:18:55,708 You see, for myself these connections between "The Overcoat" 284 00:18:55,709 --> 00:18:59,609 and what happened in the Revolution are crystal-clear. 285 00:18:59,610 --> 00:19:04,610 Gogol wrote about that which later... which was not understood by many writers of the naturalist school. 286 00:19:04,611 --> 00:19:08,111 They subsequently all jumped into writing about these little, beaten-up people... 287 00:19:08,112 --> 00:19:13,512 and it seemed that there was only one thing to do, to open their road to life, to happiness, 288 00:19:13,513 --> 00:19:17,213 and all would... here all would fall into its rightful place by itself. 289 00:19:17,214 --> 00:19:20,014 But in reality, nothing is like that. It is much scarier and... 290 00:19:20,015 --> 00:19:23,015 According to your words (this is something that I'm hearing for the first time), 291 00:19:23,016 --> 00:19:26,816 I get the impression that there is, then, nothing good at all in Akakiy Akakievich. 292 00:19:26,817 --> 00:19:31,917 Because if a person is unable to pet a dog, what is there to talk about? 293 00:19:31,918 --> 00:19:38,018 The point is this: he does not fall under the label of a positive or negative character. 294 00:19:38,019 --> 00:19:40,519 Well, nobody does, but he is horrible... 295 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,520 But he CAN be horrible. That's the issue. 296 00:19:43,521 --> 00:19:45,121 But can he be NOT horrible? 297 00:19:45,122 --> 00:19:49,122 He can be NOT horrible while he is in his writing-environment. 298 00:19:49,123 --> 00:19:50,823 He doesn't know life. 299 00:19:50,824 --> 00:19:55,000 As soon as he buys the overcoat and exits into life... he is immediately killed. 300 00:19:55,001 --> 00:19:56,651 He does not know this life. 301 00:19:56,652 --> 00:20:01,000 He exits into a space to which (into life)... in which he is not ready. 302 00:20:01,001 --> 00:20:02,401 Am I understanding you correctly if I say that 303 00:20:02,402 --> 00:20:06,102 the revolution is when these Akakiy Akakieviches come into life and... 304 00:20:06,103 --> 00:20:13,903 To some extent, it seems so. Vengeance becomes something terrible. 305 00:20:13,904 --> 00:20:17,454 And... there are no obstacles to this. 306 00:20:17,455 --> 00:20:22,305 ...You know, right now we're talking about things which require a lengthy discussion. 307 00:20:22,306 --> 00:20:24,706 There are very many nuances. Very many. 308 00:20:24,707 --> 00:20:29,107 And the things that I have stumbled across in the text itself are simply unbelievable. 309 00:20:29,108 --> 00:20:33,008 The revolution as the triumph of Akakiy Akakievich is an interesting interpretation. 310 00:20:33,009 --> 00:20:36,509 You see, it sounds too conditional to say "triumph", 311 00:20:36,510 --> 00:20:40,310 because there were other heroes, naturally. 312 00:20:40,311 --> 00:20:45,111 But that we are overestimating our own relation, 313 00:20:45,112 --> 00:20:48,812 our own empathy to this character, is completely obvious to me. 314 00:20:48,813 --> 00:20:55,713 Are there any heroes in Russian literature which you find humanly attractive? 315 00:20:55,714 --> 00:20:59,314 Well, there are many heroes really. We were once talking with Petrushevskaya 316 00:20:59,315 --> 00:21:05,815 during our work on Tale of Tales, and she says, "who's your favourite character in War and Peace?" 317 00:21:05,816 --> 00:21:09,916 I said, "Captain Tushin". You see? For me, he is... 318 00:21:09,917 --> 00:21:12,117 he is a clear and obvious hero. 319 00:21:12,118 --> 00:21:17,118 Although he does nothing heroic, he simply does his job. And does it well. 320 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,339 So you like a definite person who definitively does... 321 00:21:20,340 --> 00:21:21,940 Yes, he just does his job. 322 00:21:21,941 --> 00:21:29,011 ...this seems very strange, seeing your works, your films (it is impossible to even call them cartoons). 323 00:21:29,142 --> 00:21:33,742 You know, even in life, I like a person who does his job well. 324 00:21:33,743 --> 00:21:37,443 It doesn't matter what it is. Here's a street sweeper; 325 00:21:37,444 --> 00:21:41,544 he scrapes off the ice so that some old lady won't fall down, won't break her rib... 326 00:21:41,545 --> 00:21:44,645 But this is not enough for you because Akakiy Akakievich also does his job well. 327 00:21:44,646 --> 00:21:49,306 He does his job well and cannot leave its boundaries. That's all. 328 00:21:49,307 --> 00:21:52,707 He doesn't even understand... in this job, he is an artist. 329 00:21:52,708 --> 00:21:55,808 But he cannot... is not able to leave its boundaries. 330 00:21:55,809 --> 00:21:59,609 As soon as he moves beyond the boundary, he ceases to be this hero. 331 00:21:59,610 --> 00:22:02,310 Let's hear a question. It's a little awkward; we've gotten into such a conversation here... 332 00:22:02,311 --> 00:22:03,311 we're listening, good evening! 333 00:22:03,312 --> 00:22:04,012 Hello! 334 00:22:04,213 --> 00:22:05,313 Hello. 335 00:22:05,554 --> 00:22:10,114 I would very much like to hear your opinion about the animated film 336 00:22:10,115 --> 00:22:17,115 which won the festival prize for funniest film: "Korolyov's Childhood". 337 00:22:17,116 --> 00:22:22,816 Oh, you know what, right now I can't. I know that this is a very good film... 338 00:22:22,817 --> 00:22:31,357 I can only mention all of its positive qualities... and my positive feelings. 339 00:22:31,358 --> 00:22:38,218 But right now... I'm not ready to answer this because it's just not appearing in front of me. 340 00:22:38,219 --> 00:22:39,819 So I ask your forgiveness. 341 00:22:39,820 --> 00:22:46,520 25 years ago you wrote the director's scenario to the film which, I think, everyone is waiting for. 342 00:22:46,621 --> 00:22:51,321 But what filled your life during the quarter-century in which you were unable to work on the film? 343 00:22:51,322 --> 00:22:53,022 Well, you managed to film a bit, of course... 344 00:22:53,023 --> 00:22:54,323 You know what... 345 00:22:54,324 --> 00:22:58,924 work on that film was interrupted in 1986 and for 8 years I practically didn't film a thing. 346 00:22:58,925 --> 00:23:04,305 This meant that I had to survive, to earn money somewhere, to go and perform 347 00:23:04,306 --> 00:23:08,326 (in that time there was such an opportunity from the bureau of propaganda). 348 00:23:08,327 --> 00:23:10,227 Then, I had to build a studio. 349 00:23:10,228 --> 00:23:16,028 Rolan Bykov helped with this, or rather he didn't just help, but without him our studio would not exist. 350 00:23:16,029 --> 00:23:21,229 A huge amount of time was spent on this, because 1990s were, in general, empty years. 351 00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:22,630 Are you sad for that? 352 00:23:22,631 --> 00:23:25,000 Of course I'm sad. Life was wasted. 353 00:23:25,001 --> 00:23:29,301 You see, our country is just very... very specific in this sense. 354 00:23:29,302 --> 00:23:34,602 It doesn't think about the waste of life. It's just wasted, and that's that. 355 00:23:34,603 --> 00:23:40,403 This relates not to me personally, and not even to animation, really. 356 00:23:40,404 --> 00:23:45,504 Everyone knows today that animated films must be made, 357 00:23:45,505 --> 00:23:49,305 that concerns must be organized, that money must be given for all this. 358 00:23:49,306 --> 00:23:51,006 Everyone knows this perfectly. 359 00:23:51,007 --> 00:23:53,407 But for some reason, all of this is moving with such slowness... 360 00:23:53,408 --> 00:24:01,308 it's percolating into the minds of our economic Moishes so slowly... 361 00:24:01,309 --> 00:24:07,209 that I don't know how much time must elapse before it all becomes normal and natural. 362 00:24:07,210 --> 00:24:11,210 So you can say now, looking into the camera or at me, as you wish, 363 00:24:11,211 --> 00:24:16,391 that you have everything in place for releasing 30 minutes by the end of the year 364 00:24:16,392 --> 00:24:19,792 (one would wish for 32.5, so that it would be half the film, but at least 30)... 365 00:24:20,293 --> 00:24:22,103 I can say with completely certainty, yes. 366 00:24:22,104 --> 00:24:25,900 We have everything we need for... sitting and working, with no distractions. 367 00:24:25,901 --> 00:24:30,001 I understand that you don't yet know which actor will... 368 00:24:30,002 --> 00:24:30,702 voice. 369 00:24:30,703 --> 00:24:32,203 ...there will be some dialogue, yes? 370 00:24:32,204 --> 00:24:35,904 Yes, there will be dialogue. Although there won't be much, really, because... 371 00:24:35,905 --> 00:24:39,905 it's understandable, it's either Gogol's text or the imagery. 372 00:24:39,906 --> 00:24:45,706 Once, I assumed that the actor would be Aleksandr Kalyagin. Now I'm not sure. 373 00:24:45,707 --> 00:24:53,107 My sense of the film's sound is changing. In this sense, yes, I see something... 374 00:24:53,108 --> 00:24:57,408 I begin to see something else. So right now, at this time, the identity of the actor is uncertain. 375 00:24:57,409 --> 00:25:00,509 I am left to thank you very much for coming. 376 00:25:00,510 --> 00:25:04,110 I had suspected that our talk, which would begin with the animated film festival, 377 00:25:04,111 --> 00:25:06,911 would wander into a completely different direction. It was quite clear it that would happen. 378 00:25:06,912 --> 00:25:08,612 And it's good, I think, that it happened. 379 00:25:08,613 --> 00:25:11,213 I repeat that our guest tonight was Yuriy Norshteyn. 380 00:25:11,214 --> 00:25:12,714 We began by talking about the recent conclusion of 381 00:25:12,715 --> 00:25:15,415 the 12th Open Russian Festival of Animated Film in Suzdal. 382 00:25:15,416 --> 00:25:17,316 Thank you once again for coming here. 383 00:25:17,317 --> 00:25:21,017 And with that, I, your host, bid you goodbye until tommorow. All the best, and good night.